BULLSHIT!

[Kent]

Flag-folding recitations now banned at national cemeteries


Flag-folding recitations by Memorial Honor Detail volunteers are now banned at the nation’s 125 veterans graveyards because of a complaint about the ceremony at Riverside National Cemetery.
During thousands of military burials, the volunteers have folded the American flag 13 times and recited the significance of every fold to survivors.
The first fold represents life, the second a belief in eternal life, and so on.
The complaint revolved around the narration in the 11th fold, which celebrates Jewish war veterans and “glorifies the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.”
The National Cemetery Administration then decided to ban the entire recital at all national cemeteries. Details of the complaint weren’t disclosed.
Administration spokesman Mike Nacincik said the new policy outlined in a Sept. 27 memorandum is aimed at creating uniform services throughout the military graveyard system.
He said the 13-fold recital is not part of the U.S. Flag Code and is not government-approved.
Veterans and honor detail volunteers, including Bobby Castillo, 85, and Rees Lloyd, 59, are furious.
“That the actions of one disgruntled, whining, narcissistic and intolerant individual is preventing veterans from getting the honors they deserve is truly an outrage,” Lloyd said. “This is another attempt by secularist fanatics to cleanse any reference to God.”
Castillo, a Navy veteran of World War II, said it’s “a slap in the face to every veteran.”
“When we got back from the war, we didn’t ask for a whole lot,” Castillo said. “We just want to give our veterans the respect they deserve. No one has ever complained to us about it. I just don’t understand.”
The outrage by American Veterans, Veteran Organizations, American Families and even non-Christians is overwhelming. And in the end they all are saying Enough is Enough!
Just how much more and how much wider are we going to spread the cheeks of our asses and let them ram whatever they want up into us?
Is that trip to the store or that tv show so important that we can't get off out fat asses and do something right? What else do they have to take away from you and I to make us stand up and grab our collective balls and get these sorry sons of bitches out of office?
Dammit I'm agnostic and as such don't put blind faith at this time in God or the Bible, but they are symbols of how this great nation of ours was born and stood for. It's the same as our Flag, men and women fought and died for that piece of cloth and it became more than just fabric. I'm sure I'll have more to say and hope you all do too, but for now it's best I end this.

[Peggy]

This is complete nonsense. I'll have more to say later, can't think straught at the moment

[RC's Sweetheart]

I'm definitely in the wrong frame of mind to respond to this...... *sees nothing but red*

[Kent]

Once again, National News for a minute on a limited scale at that and then not a damn thing, why? This is important and I don't give a damn about Brittanys whatever or some stars latest breakup but they sure make sure to shove that in our face.

[RatherBeCamping]

Why is this important? Are you a vet?

[Peggy]

It should be important whether he's a vet or not.

[RatherBeCamping]

I think people mischaracterize the flag continuously. I was aking him why it was important to him. Obviously by posting it it is, so I wanted to know why.

[Peggy]

He'll be here shortly to tell you ;)

[Kent]

Why is this important? Are you a vet?

It's important because I'm an American first and foremost. The ideals it stands for, has been fought for, been carried for, waved for, stands for and represents is something I hold value in and I feel every true American should. It's sad that in recent years so many have lost sight in those ideas. In this case it's a ceremony that one idiot has a problem with that bitched to another idiot that is in a position to abuse his power to band said ceremony because a word is used? This word is a symbol and just like my Flag has seen wars fought over, case in point the current war and all the power struggles happening today in the land of sand.
So why are all, us Americans, the people of the United States of America so willing and fast to throw away those things upon which our Nation was built upon? To be politically correct? Shall I say, Bullshit!".
Do you have a favorite sports figure and if so do you cheer for them when they do well?
Do you wear a favorite shirt a lot because it feels good to wear? Now what if someone says take it off because it bothers them, will you?

So in answer as to why it's important to me, it's because I am tired of seeing the ideals and values being dismissed in the name of not offending illegal aliens that are here living off my tax dollar or taking my job and in the name of being politically correct which is really the same damn thing.


Now a question for you. Is it important to you? And if it's not why is that?

[Kent]

I think people mischaracterize the flag continuously. snipped

how so?

[RatherBeCamping]

it's not important to me because anyone who desecrates the flag does not desecrate my morals or ideals. I don't need a flag to remind me of what's important in life. I don't need a flag to rally around. The flag is a symbol of FREEDOM, not a symbol of one's morals over anothers. We are a nation free to worship, free to protest, and free to burn the very thing that represents that freedom. I say burn it up, wad it up, and enjoy the freedom to do so. I don't need a symbol to make my morals or values for me.

[Kent]

So that means you don't need a paycheck to know the value of the work you do because you have the sore back and bleeding fingers to remind you personally? Fantastic, send it to me will ya?
And you don't need to be the one having sex with your wife because you have that piece of paper to know you love her and her you either, so no worries we can all line up and have a go since marriage is just a silly symbol after all.

So you didn't come away from your service to this nation with a sense of pride or brotherhood, is that what I'm seeing? And the saddest part of this is that it feels that no one but a Vet should even have these feelings when in fact all Americans should know this.
Yea it's a symbol but look at just what it means to so many. It's not a TV guide or a puzzle they hand the next of kin at a funeral of a veteran. It's not the TV stations that cut power to half when a National Leader dies and a National Holiday to honer a Vet takes place, it's the Flag. Some as yourself it seems asks why is it so important to have protection for this simple thing, I have to ask, why is not that important?

[RatherBeCamping]

So that means you don't need a paycheck to know the value of the work you do because you have the sore back and bleeding fingers to remind you personally? Fantastic, send it to me will ya?
And you don't need to be the one having sex with your wife because you have that piece of paper to know you love her and her you either, so no worries we can all line up and have a go since marriage is just a silly symbol after all.

So you didn't come away from your service to this nation with a sense of pride or brotherhood, is that what I'm seeing? And the saddest part of this is that it feels that no one but a Vet should even have these feelings when in fact all Americans should know this.
Yea it's a symbol but look at just what it means to so many. It's not a TV guide or a puzzle they hand the next of kin at a funeral of a veteran. It's not the TV stations that cut power to half when a National Leader dies and a National Holiday to honer a Vet takes place, it's the Flag. Some as yourself it seems asks why is it so important to have protection for this simple thing, I have to ask, why is not that important?In my 22 years of service I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. In accordance with that document, I support and defend the right of any citizen in this country who deems it necessary to do whatever they want to the flag. I never said I liked it.

[Kent]

Where does it say they can do whatever to the Flag? I sure can't remember ever seeing that in there. Glad to see you don't like it, just can't understand that you feel it's okay to treat it improperly.

[RatherBeCamping]

That would be the 1st ammendment. That would be "speech" as defined by the supreme court.

[Peggy]

And the same amendment gives us the freedom to fold that flag in a public ceremony in a veterans cemetery.

[RatherBeCamping]

Unfortunately too many folks misinterpreted the 1st ammendment to have a separation clause in it, which it clearly does not. That said, because that "ritual" mentions religious figures specifically it violates the 1st ammendment according to those same people and this supreme court who have put the "separation Clause" in the constitution.

[Peggy]

How do you figure that the ritual is a religious one, if I'm reading that correctly.
I've heard/seen it many times, and it's not. It is a ritual of reverence and respect for our veterans who gave everything they had for this country. Period. Because "God" is mentioned in it makes it religious?

Incredible...

[Kent]

Damn, this is cool that we finally have an exchanging of thoughts, but on the other hand I hope we all remember that we all share the right to have different opinions. That said .....

The word speech leaves little to be misinterpreted. Speech is talking, or using ones voice to make thoughts known, to tell something to someone. Not real sure how I or anyone can get confused here.

Burning a Flag is an act. Walking on a Flag is an action. No matter what is done to disgrace it other than talking how bad it is, it comes down to it being an action, sure as hell not speech, except that the sucpreme court deems it is, but does that make it right or just legal?

As I understand it, the ritual of the folding of the Flag isn't in question, it's the reciting which grant it can be a part of it that is. But like most rituals and ceremonies, if you don't perform it in whole, it's like eating a PB&J without the J.

So if I understand your way of thinking, anything in relationship to the Flag is protected under the 1st amendment and is permitted by law? So it's not an act but speech? Super, please try and be on my jury when I, under the protection of that amendment speak with a 2X4 broken over the heads of anyone disgracing that Flag or voice my opinion which might result in blood being spilled on their part as an artistic means to what I'm trying to say because to me that holds the same weight as speech as what you and the few others say.

Just because the supreme court says it's legal sure as hell doesn't make it right and once again I, and so many others, are proved correct that we the people are bending over and taking it up the ass and allowing those we put into office piss away the ideals and rights fought for by people like you and I and our forefathers to what end?

I'm sorry you lost, or never had any pride, in your Nation of birth and are so fast to disregard our values, but I'm not sorry in the least.

[Kent]

It is a ritual of reverence and respect for our veterans

No, it's a ritual the explains what each fold of the Flag represents, just like the colors of the Flag hold an original meaning and why the Field is blue, the stars white and what they represent (one for each state).

It's a damn tradition that now one person has whined loud enough that some pissant banned it, so why aren't we doing our own bitching and get this absurd ban revoked? Maybe we are and the good ol' media is doing the norm and not reporting it because it isn't making them money to let it be known.

[Peggy]

Thank you for setting me straight on that Kent, I appreciate it. I've been in several ceremonies where this ritual took place, including the funerals of my step-day, grandfather and Ron's dad. It's an awesome, beautiful ritual and fills my heart with pride.

I have emailed my senators and house members both here in Ohio and in Florida, about this, and voiced my own outrage. I hope that others will too.

[RatherBeCamping]

11. In the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

That's the 11th fold It's religious

[RatherBeCamping]

" So if I understand your way of thinking, anything in relationship to the Flag is protected under the 1st amendment and is permitted by law? So it's not an act but speech? Super, please try and be on my jury when I, under the protection of that amendment speak with a 2X4 broken over the heads of anyone disgracing that Flag or voice my opinion which might result in blood being spilled on their part as an artistic means to what I'm trying to say because to me that holds the same weight as speech as what you and the few others say."

Now you insinuate I am dumb? I should be on your jury because you commit a moronic act? It is you who has trouble understanding the constitution. Perhaps you should try reading it.

"The word speech leaves little to be misinterpreted. Speech is talking, or using ones voice to make thoughts known, to tell something to someone. Not real sure how I or anyone can get confused here."

Speech is protest as well, and one does not have to talk. I am through with this topic. I don't argue in Ad Homs and circles.

[Peggy]

TIME OUT!!

Silly me, but I still think things can be debated without resorting to attacks

so call me naive

[skyrider777]

Flag-folding recitations now banned at national cemeteries


Flag-folding recitations by Memorial Honor Detail volunteers are now banned at the nation’s 125 veterans graveyards because of a complaint about the ceremony at Riverside National Cemetery.
During thousands of military burials, the volunteers have folded the American flag 13 times and recited the significance of every fold to survivors.
The first fold represents life, the second a belief in eternal life, and so on.
The complaint revolved around the narration in the 11th fold, which celebrates Jewish war veterans and “glorifies the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.”
The National Cemetery Administration then decided to ban the entire recital at all national cemeteries. Details of the complaint weren’t disclosed.
Administration spokesman Mike Nacincik said the new policy outlined in a Sept. 27 memorandum is aimed at creating uniform services throughout the military graveyard system.
He said the 13-fold recital is not part of the U.S. Flag Code and is not government-approved.
Veterans and honor detail volunteers, including Bobby Castillo, 85, and Rees Lloyd, 59, are furious.
“That the actions of one disgruntled, whining, narcissistic and intolerant individual is preventing veterans from getting the honors they deserve is truly an outrage,” Lloyd said. “This is another attempt by secularist fanatics to cleanse any reference to God.”
Castillo, a Navy veteran of World War II, said it’s “a slap in the face to every veteran.”
“When we got back from the war, we didn’t ask for a whole lot,” Castillo said. “We just want to give our veterans the respect they deserve. No one has ever complained to us about it. I just don’t understand.”
The outrage by American Veterans, Veteran Organizations, American Families and even non-Christians is overwhelming. And in the end they all are saying Enough is Enough!
Just how much more and how much wider are we going to spread the cheeks of our asses and let them ram whatever they want up into us?
Is that trip to the store or that tv show so important that we can't get off out fat asses and do something right? What else do they have to take away from you and I to make us stand up and grab our collective balls and get these sorry sons of bitches out of office?
Dammit I'm agnostic and as such don't put blind faith at this time in God or the Bible, but they are symbols of how this great nation of ours was born and stood for. It's the same as our Flag, men and women fought and died for that piece of cloth and it became more than just fabric. I'm sure I'll have more to say and hope you all do too, but for now it's best I end this.
It is outlandish how the few seem to always to get their way. Perhaps had the whiners been on the front lines they have a different outlook on this subject. It angers me to no end when the very flag that represents our country is treated with such disrespect. If it were up to them they would like to just throw it in the trash can.They should all be shipped to Iraq and let them see what our flag stands for. And, don't get me started on the torn and, tattered flags permitted to wave, no respect for our country or out veterans. ED

[skyrider777]

It's important because I'm an American first and foremost. The ideals it stands for, has been fought for, been carried for, waved for, stands for and represents is something I hold value in and I feel every true American should. It's sad that in recent years so many have lost sight in those ideas. In this case it's a ceremony that one idiot has a problem with that bitched to another idiot that is in a position to abuse his power to band said ceremony because a word is used? This word is a symbol and just like my Flag has seen wars fought over, case in point the current war and all the power struggles happening today in the land of sand.
So why are all, us Americans, the people of the United States of America so willing and fast to throw away those things upon which our Nation was built upon? To be politically correct? Shall I say, Bullshit!".
Do you have a favorite sports figure and if so do you cheer for them when they do well?
Do you wear a favorite shirt a lot because it feels good to wear? Now what if someone says take it off because it bothers them, will you?

So in answer as to why it's important to me, it's because I am tired of seeing the ideals and values being dismissed in the name of not offending illegal aliens that are here living off my tax dollar or taking my job and in the name of being politically correct which is really the same damn thing.


Now a question for you. Is it important to you? And if it's not why is that?
I'm with you Kent. I wonder how their life would be had our vets not been on the front lines protecting their whining asses.

[skyrider777]

" So if I understand your way of thinking, anything in relationship to the Flag is protected under the 1st amendment and is permitted by law? So it's not an act but speech? Super, please try and be on my jury when I, under the protection of that amendment speak with a 2X4 broken over the heads of anyone disgracing that Flag or voice my opinion which might result in blood being spilled on their part as an artistic means to what I'm trying to say because to me that holds the same weight as speech as what you and the few others say."

Now you insinuate I am dumb? I should be on your jury because you commit a moronic act? It is you who has trouble understanding the constitution. Perhaps you should try reading it.

"The word speech leaves little to be misinterpreted. Speech is talking, or using ones voice to make thoughts known, to tell something to someone. Not real sure how I or anyone can get confused here."

Speech is protest as well, and one does not have to talk. I am through with this topic. I don't argue in Ad Homs and circles.
How long you been out of the rubber room, or do they know your gone yet?

[RatherBeCamping]

How long you been out of the rubber room, or do they know your gone yet?

Oh look, another Neo Con who only wants to adhere to parts of the constitution they like. I am a retired Army Officer, and whether you, Kent, or any other NEO Con likes it, it violates the constitution. Keep plugging away big guy. Maybe you should read what's been posted. I don't like it, but the fact remains that it violates the constitution.

[Kent]

Just HOW does it violate it? Because a few liberal political asskissers say so? Our constitution until recently didn't have all the crap placed in it to rip apart the foundation upon which we stand. It did and does have within it the means to make changes but I would think those changes should be for the good, and damn if I can see how treating the Flag of our Nation in a disrespectful way is good, can you? Why are you, a retired army officer so willing to accept it? I cannot even begin to understand that and while it would be easy but childish to call you some name, that's just below me, but I'll say this, thank GOD I was in the US Navy and didn't have to worry about being in a foxhole with someone of the seemingly I don't give a damn attitude you're presenting because I would not trust you to have my back.

I really try and not get personal and I want to make it clear that I say this as me, and not a member of staff here, but sir, you disgrace the uniform you wore and the Flag and Nation you swore to protect and I find it disgusting to think that when you die they will allow your coffin to be honored by the placement of our Flag when it clearly means not a damn thing to you.

[Peggy]

Well, I'll have to agree with Kent on that.


Ok now everyone, enough with the name-calling. If you can't debate/discuss/voice your opinions in an adult manner rather than playground name-calling, I'll have to close the thread.

Now be nice. :fight:

[skyrider777]

if I'm on your jury, your in deep trouble.
Maybe they have mischaracterized you. Maybe your really not what you want people to think you are. Why don't you move to Iraq, they don't care for our flag either, you should feel right at home there, at least flag wise. :)

[RatherBeCamping]

really try and not get personal and I want to make it clear that I say this as me, and not a member of staff here, but sir, you disgrace the uniform you wore and the Flag and Nation you swore to protect and I find it disgusting to think that when you die they will allow your coffin to be honored by the placement of our Flag when it clearly means not a damn thing to you"

Apparently you and skyrider cannot find the constitution to read it. I also served in the Navy Imagine that. I disgraced the uniform?. I don't give a rat's ass who you are or what your position is. READ THE CONSTITUTION. Don't think for a second that I like the rules, but yes, as long as the constitution outlaws things like this I stand by it.

[RatherBeCamping]

Since you cannot read it or find it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Stop drinking the kool aid and learn to read.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution) is a part of the United States Bill of Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights). It prohibits the federal legislature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress) from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion)" (the "Establishment Clause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause_of_the_First_Amendment)") or that prohibit free exercise of religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion) (the "Free Exercise Clause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Exercise_Clause)"), laws that infringe the freedom of speech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech), infringe the freedom of the press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press), limit the right to assemble peaceably (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly), or limit the right to petition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_petition) the government for a redress of grievances (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance).
Although the First Amendment explicitly prohibits only the named rights from being abridged by laws made by Congress, the courts have interpreted it as applying more broadly. As the first sentence in the body of the Constitution reserves all law-making ("legislative") authority to Congress, the courts have held that the First Amendment's terms also extend to the executive and judicial branches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary). Additionally, in the 20th century the Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) has held that the Due Process clause of the 1868 Fourteenth Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion) "incorporates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_%28Bill_of_Rights%29)" the limitations of the First Amendment to restrict also the states.

[RatherBeCamping]

if I'm on your jury, your in deep trouble.
Maybe they have mischaracterized you. Maybe your really not what you want people to think you are. Why don't you move to Iraq, they don't care for our flag either, you should feel right at home there, at least flag wise. :)

Having been there I can say they have more respect for the Constitution than you or Kent do. Stick to drinking Ensure Old man.

[Peggy]

Knock it off with the insults people. I'm not saying it again.

[RatherBeCamping]

Yeah yeah....they start em...I finish em. They wanna keep it up...I'm game.

[RatherBeCamping]

Reading is fundamental Kent and Skyrider...... If you need someone to read it to you. Let me know. Since I had to go get it for you.

[Peggy]

I really DO suggest you knock it off now.

[skyrider777]

Having been there I can say they have more respect for the Constitution than you or Kent do. Stick to drinking Ensure Old man.
your not for real, maybe a tape recorder.

[RatherBeCamping]

You're not a person, maybe a monkey.....nah too bright....perhaps a slug.

[Kent]

Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, 'Mexican Visitor's Lament' -- 10/25/07. She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said, 'They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes...What Happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?' That's a good question - it deserves an answer. Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America ? The answers may surprise you!

•In California , if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico , it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.
•In Colorado , 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grand-kids - would move back 'home', mostly to Mexico . That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
•Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
•Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop-out/flunk-out rate because of thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado .
•Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
•In Florida , 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America , the rule of law, and English.
•In Chicago , Illinois , 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.
•If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home', the U.S. Economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 Billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state and city coffers.
◘No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.
◘We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.
◘In cities like L.A. , 20,000 members of the ' 18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!
◘Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!
◘America 's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America 's economy - which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.
◘At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California , Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act.
◘Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
◘Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse gases.
◘Over one million of Mexico 's poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville , Texas to San Diego , California in what the New York Times called, 'colonias' or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation.
◘The New York Times reported them to be America 's new ' Third World ' inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonias. By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico .
◘We should invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries and/or make a better life in Mexico . We already invite a million people into our country legally more than all other countries combined annually. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation. It's time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and our way of life.

[Kent]

♦Interesting Statistics. Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America , and I hope they are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them:

1. $11 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens. http://tinyurl.com/zob77 (http://tinyurl.com/zob77)
2.$2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html (http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html)
3. $2.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://wwwcis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html (http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html)
4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)
5.$17 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)
6.$3 Million Dollars PER DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)
7.30% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)
8.$90 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html)
9.$200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)
10.The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html)
11.During the year 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine, and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht (http://tinyurl.com/t9sht)
12.The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period. http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation (http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation)
13.In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm (http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm)
14.The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States! http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml (http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html)
The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!!

If this doesn't bother you, then just ignore the message.
Otherwise, copy and send it to everyone you know, put in on any site you can, do something, just don't keep closing your eyes and thinking it will go away, it won't!

[Peggy]

Now THAT is what I call a RANT! :huh:

[Kathmary]

An interesting parable



I bought a bird feeder. I hung

it on my back porch and filled

it with seed. What a beauty of

a bird feeder it is, as I filled it

lovingly with seed. Within a

week we had hundreds of birds

taking advantage of the

continuous flow of free and

easily accessible food.



But then the birds started

building nests in the boards

of the patio, above the table,

and next to the barbecue.



Then came the poop. It was

everywhere: on the patio tile,

the chairs, the table ...

everywhere!



Then some of the birds

turned mean. They would

dive bomb me and try to

peck me even though I had

fed them out of my own

pocket.



And others birds were

boisterous and loud. They

sat on the feeder and

squawked and screamed at

all hours of the day and night

and demanded that I fill it

when it got low on food.



After a while, I couldn't even

sit on my own back porch

anymore. So I took down the

bird feeder and in three days

the birds were gone. I cleaned

up their mess and took down

the many nests they had built

all over the patio.



Soon, the back yard was like

it used to be ... quiet, serene

and no one demanding their

rights to a free meal.



Now let's see ....

Our government gives out

free food, subsidized housing,

free medical care, and free

education and allows anyone

born here to be an automatic

citizen.



Then the illegals came by the

tens of thousands. Suddenly

our taxes went up to pay for

free services; small apartments

are housing 5 families; you

have to wait 6 hours to be seen

by an emergency room doctor;

your child's 2nd grade class is

behind other schools because

over half the class doesn't speak

English.



Corn Flakes now come in a

bilingual box; I have to

"press one" to hear my bank

talk to me in English, and

people waving flags other

than "Old Glory" are

squawking and screaming

in the streets, demanding

more rights and free liberties.



Just my opinion, but maybe

it's time for the government

to take down the bird feeder.



If you agree, pass it on. If not,



continue cleaning up the poop!






http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x134/rockin007/msngiraffes.gif?t=1200709417Somebody emailed this to me and I was thinking how true this is!!!!!

[Peggy]

GOOD analogy, and I couldn't agree more!

[Kent]

Is it just mud slinging? No
Is it just another rumor? No
Is this true? Yes
Has this been verified? Yes


So Barack Hussein Obama II, wants to be our next president, a virtual unknown before this campaign.

From the start he has caused a stir unlike anything seen before. Why? Is it because he's not white? Is it because he's not black? Is it because his dedication to the United State and the betterment of ALL is doubtful? Is it because so many have been screaming for someone new, someone not embedded in the political life that only tells us what we want to hear every four years and once elected right into taking care of special interest and myself they go?
Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Do we want someone with a new outlook and new ideas? Sure we do, the same old same old is, well, old! Like a speeding train, we've seen our rights, freedoms and way of life slipping away at a frightening rate. Most of them are basic, the extreme basic rights so many of our forefathers did battle to get us and millions died for. But for some reason we have sat idle like sheep waiting for the slaughter while it took place, so now what?

Have we really resorted to nothing more than worker ants? Let them tell us what we can and can't say, where we can or can't go, watch what they say we can watch, hear only what they deem is fit? What the hell are we doing letting this happen America? And would someone please remind me the date and location that we all seemed to have lined up and allowed the politicians and our government slice off our nads.

Have we sunk so damn low that we're ready to grasp onto anyone with a smile and a lesson or two in public speaking, that has, for most of his life practiced non-American values? That has said so many times how much he dislikes the American Way of life and how much better it is to life with arab nation values? Someone that has written about, spoke about and bragged about how much better communist life is that our own government is? His self proclaimed hero is a far left wing Marxist?
Someone that has said and even has said in his campaign that he will raise taxes across the board, go in and take the money that the richer folks among us has made, just take it, and spread it around?

Folks, he's talking about undoing what our forefathers gave to us, bleed for us, died for us to have, the way to live, our freedoms, rights, security, to take it all way in one swift motion, are we ready for that?

Some people need a lot of manure thrown in their face to get in sunk in that hey, shit stinks! But some, like me, I only need a whiff of it to know, and when I saw him standing on a stage along with other potential presidential hopefuls during the National Anthem and he was the only one not holding his hand over his heart, and that he has failed to recite the pledge of allegiance more than once, until his advisor's told him, hey stupid, that's pissing voters off, and to see that not only did he not show respect but he was looking around like he was hunting for whatever, that this idiot was never going to get my vote or respect, but no, that wasn't enough of a slam to my nation, the one he wants to hold the high office of president of ...........

So now, August of 2008, with the elections just months away it's come down to him and McCain, and both have their own campaign jets and both have slogans on them, but this fool has had his refurbished and repainted and had a beautiful depiction of the American Flag on the tail painted over and now some design of his picking is there now. What the hell is with this guy?

For no other reason than his clear distaste of American Values will he not get my vote, but the thing that worries me is that so many are willing to turn our nation over to those that have declared war on us, killed us, harmed us, raped us of our freedoms and rights.

I don't give a billy damn is he's black, or white, or, whatever the hell he is. But he's using the wish for change, the thinking that hey, I'm black (Kind of) so vote for me and get those old white men out of the office, I have a dream blah blah blah.

I give qa damn because he's a fancy talking marxist American values hating SOB!

We do need change. We do need someone that will take care of America first and the others after that. Someone to start to build this nation back to what it was, but to vote for change just for the sake or change is not smart thinking I feel.

[topcatoh]

Kent,

I am seeing red right now..... I am a veteran who may have not seen combat but did my duty as an American citizen. I had buddies that did lose thier lives for their country and it's symbol.
I would like to know who started this bunch of crap. They need to be bitch slapped.
TC

[Peggy]

I'm just hoping and praying to God that he does not get elected.
I can't believe that so many people are so blind.....

[Kent]

Kent,

I am seeing red right now..... I am a veteran who may have not seen combat but did my duty as an American citizen. I had buddies that did lose thier lives for their country and it's symbol.
I would like to know who started this bunch of crap. They need to be bitch slapped.
TC

Like you in our own way, I too joined the USN in 1975 and if memory serves me right, it was the red, white and blue, old glory, that I stood before it and recited the oath, not some bullshit round thing, and it was the pledge of Allegiance I stood each day in school for, before the courts decided it was wrong to do so and me being to young to vote let it happen. And the last decades I stood there in respect as family members and others that were veterans that had passed away, and watched as the US Flag was draped on their casket and later folder with honor and presented to family members and have taken part in that ceremony myself.
I stood at a hockey game as I had so many times and stood for the National Anthem with an uncovered head and my hand over my heart with my 5 year old son at the time and even he had the knowledge and respect to do the same, and he asked my why the guy in the row next to us didn't take his hat off and when I said he was a dumbass, I still smile as I remember seeing my son tap him on his back and tell him, "take you hat off dumbass".

And since 1989, I've taken part in the grave decoration at a National cemetery and in less than an hour, seen a US Flag placed at the headstone of every veterans grave, 30,000 plus and this last year it was over 36,000 graves, and while we watched over the young and sometimes old doing this, some would step back and salute, say a prayer or just pause a moment before moving to the next ........

So when I see this piss poor excuse of what he claims himself as an American, I want to throw up. When I see photographic proof of him not showing the honor that all Americans should show the Flag, I want to do things that if put to print in this day and age of a joke would land me in prison. When I see that jet with the Flag gone now, I just hope that at 30,000 feet it suffers a fatal crash with no survivors.

But, who do we bitch slap for letting this happen? I have that answer, it's us!

We've allowed our great nation to become what it is that someone like this can even come close to holding the high office of president. We stood by and did nothing or not enough as the courts took and are still taking away our rights and freedoms. We cower or ignore the fact that our government is letting thousands of our sworn enemies set up training camps and other locations in our cities and we live in a depressed economy and in lower standards as that same government gives our tax dollars to illegals and the others that say they want to escape their nation but so many have already showed they are part of sleeper cells, but hey, here's a new home for a buck, here's a free medical card for you and your family, here are some food stamps, here's a new car, but we let them do it and sit back bitching and complaining and do nothing else. We even re-elect the bastards.

So who gets bitch slapped?

[topcatoh]

How about the person(s) that have suggested such a rediculous
thing. Our veterans, especailly those that have given their lives,
deserve our undying gratitude and respect.

[Kent]

that's a given

[Peggy]

........ So who gets bitch slapped?

How about the person(s) that have suggested such a rediculous thing.

How about all of us? We've all set back and let our rights and freedoms be diminished. Have any of us spoken up? Not me, and yeah I'm ashamed to admit it.

What I was really surprised to hear is what was in the news yesterday. That Hillary Clinton was repeatedly advised to reveal Obama's anti-patriotism, repeatedly advised to cast him as "un-American", and even SHE backed down. I do understand that she possibly felt it would ruin her bid for the WH, but hey, NOT doing so did the same thing.

What's wrong with us?!?!?! And what is wrong with the American people that they want "change" so bad, that they'll vote for someone who obviously IS "un-american"???

[Raven]

AMEN to that.



So in answer as to why it's important to me, it's because I am tired of seeing the ideals and values being dismissed in the name of not offending illegal aliens that are here living off my tax dollar or taking my job and in the name of being politically correct which is really the same damn thing.

[Peggy]

I'm glad someone agrees with us! lol

[Kent]

Exxon Mobile is the world largest publicly traded oil company. It’s being reported that they have just shattered their own record for a quarter’s profit, which they did the last quarter with $14.83 billion dollars. At the same time they report that production and supply is down, yet, thry made that huge profit. Their income jumped 58% from July through September, 2008. No kidding huh. The earnings last quarter was only a measily $11.68 billion, poor babies.

And they want us to do what, feel bad, that because of hurricane Gustav and Ike that the repairs will cost $500 million? Oh no what now, they will have to eat off the McDonalds’ dollar menu for a week? Poor bastards.

So they made huge amounts of profits and no doubt the execs will give themselves huge bonuses but what about those they raped? Yes, they raped you and I along with the other companies. And as a whole, not all, but as a whole, we can’t say a damn thing about it because we didn’t just bend over, we even spread our collective cheeks and said there ya go.

So while they rake the cash in, you and me drove only when it was really needed and kept the AC’s off and the heat down to almost bone chilling temps to save a few pennies. How many of you got sick and how many people died as a result of this while they used some truly piss poor reasons to jack the cost up and keep them up until the rumors of a public uproar started to become a real possibility? And why, now with crude under $65 a barrel are so many stations still selling with the cost still high? In SW Ohio gas is now under $2 a gal, while in NE Ohio it remains over $2.45 a gal?

If the government wants to do something right for once, and stick their nose into public owned business and a commodity that people really must have and that’s fuel and energy, why don’t they force a cap on all energy cost? There is absolutely no damn reason that is valid that I can see, that gas in Louisiana, Idaho, Michigan, Ohio, New York, should be a penny more or less anywhere else. You have not only some older people buying sub-standard food to live on, you now have people of all ages going without or getting things a dog eats, and feeding their families, the children and that is just plain wrong!

These two politicians that are the forerunners for the office of president of the US, are both saying how it’s time to bring back the middle class and that one says assure the upper class remains whit what they have. But what about the bulk of the people, the poor, the under class?

Most I bet don’t like being poor, and some that were less than middle class but not poor, are now classed as poor because of what we have allowed for the last few decades, and that’s the whoring out of America.

Take for example, Hershey Chocolate Company. A long time American company. It is a main employer in PA and a whole town revolves around it. They want to sell worldwide and build factories all over? Great, I see no trouble in that, to a point, but when they shut a huge part of the American factory down, lay off, yea right, it’s called firing, they fire hundreds and put those people at risk, move that factory to Mexico where they work for trash wage, have disgusting standards of health and safety and then turn around and want to have us buy their products as if nothing is wrong? Bullshit, it is wrong, but I lay odds most folks will keep buying their items and not even care.

Sometime I wonder how it is that when we walk down the sidewalk and in the stores that we don’t constantly slip in human waste, since everyone’s sphincter muscle are so stretched out.

[Peggy]

dayummmm.... :hiding: